Curse

cthulhu reborn · May 04, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

What do Anet need us for? They already have our money and dont charge any fees.

And anyway, I am 100% /unsigned to this totally rubbish idea of allowing 7 heroes in GW now because I dont want a reason to have to return to the game.

They need us to buy GW2

If you don't want to come back...don't. You can still make your own choices I hope.

Still, I don't see a need for this either. All you need is one more player for a 2+6 and you can do anything in PvE. If you don't have one person you can play together with, that's an entirely different problem. And except for a few bonuses you can pretty much do all missions in pve with heroes and henchies.

bhavv · May 04, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

They need us to buy GW2

If you don't want to come back...don't. You can still make your own choices I hope.

Still, I don't see a need for this either. All you need is one more player for a 2+6 and you can do anything in PvE. If you don't have one person you can play together with, that's an entirely different problem. And except for a few bonuses you can pretty much do all missions in pve with heroes and henchies.

Why would I want to play with 1 other person if I can play alone? I hardly ever do that, and you actually think it is possible to find 1 other person to do everything that you want to do with in the game? lol.

/waiting for AoC.

Aera Lure · May 04, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Why would I want to play with 1 other person if I can play alone? I hardly ever do that, and you actually think it is possible to find 1 other person to do everything that you want to do with in the game? lol.

Its actually quite fun, and very possible. I went through Legendary Guardian and MotN with but a single other person and the rest heroes. Had no problems and we had a lot of fun. You'd be surprised. Ended up joining their guild too, since the one I had been in since the start of the game had come to an end.

Even before that though, when I started out with Legendary Guardian, it wasnt that hard to do a LFG (HM) and find one other person in pretty much any area to do the mission with. Met a few other really cool people doing that.

Why would you want to? I dont know. Why would you not want to? I wasnt trying to answer either question than just to say yeah, it IS possible and not that hard in fact to find a single other person to do 2+6 with.

Thizzle · May 04, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

It was smart to make it 3 heroes only. I see many people who just H/H everything and sometimes I rather just be in the party than lead it.

Red Sonya · May 05, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Resource funding for GW is at a minimum now, hardly likely there will be more heroes as that would take a tremendous amount of resources. Anet is moving AWAY from heroes and henchies if you notice as GW2 is just going to give you some companion who gives you buffs and there won't even be 3 heroes or any henchies. Best get used to the new age of GW.

Vinraith · May 05, 2008, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Resource funding for GW is at a minimum now, hardly likely there will be more heroes as that would take a tremendous amount of resources. Anet is moving AWAY from heroes and henchies if you notice as GW2 is just going to give you some companion who gives you buffs and there won't even be 3 heroes or any henchies. Best get used to the new age of GW.

You mean the one where everything in the game can be soloed and there's no reason to ever party, be it with AI or with humans? I'm looking forward to it. Until then, it'd be nice to have true soloability in all areas of this game too.

And considering that we can have 6 heroes now by backdooring the system, 7 shouldn't be a serious problem. It's not like we need control windows for all of them or something.

ChaoticCoyote · May 05, 2008, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

If you're getting build criticism, one of two things is true. Either you're trying to play with bad players that don't know an effective build when they see it, or you're trying to play with good players that refuse to waste time and risk failure by permitting players to bring whatever they want. In the former case, find people that don't fail. In the latter case, you need to adapt in order to survive.

Thrid choice: Quit, which I did many months ago. I've played exactly 6 hours of GW since before Christmas, and that onyl to get the end-game weapons for Prophecies.

WHy am I on the forums? Look at my post history; these are the first posts I've left in MONTHS.

As for build criticism -- I don't care to grind cheap-ass PvE skills like Ursan and LB gaze, nor do I like the pointless design fo the GW end-game areas where those skills are required by 99% of groups. My builds are just fine, and were never questions until a couple of over-powered PvE skills turned the entire game into easy-farm mode.

Even *if* GW added full hero groups, I wouldn't play much, because I don;t like where ANet took the gameplay. Before Nightfall, I was a rah-rah GW fanatic. Now I am not. Your mileage may vary... and given ANet's model, I'm certain they don't give a tinker's damn about people like me.

Having stated my opinion, I once again fade away... you may fire the last word when ready, Gridley.

ChaoticCoyote · May 05, 2008, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Resource funding for GW is at a minimum now, hardly likely there will be more heroes as that would take a tremendous amount of resources. Anet is moving AWAY from heroes and henchies if you notice as GW2 is just going to give you some companion who gives you buffs and there won't even be 3 heroes or any henchies. Best get used to the new age of GW.

Henchmen and heroes were the first bad design decision; adding grind-based cheat skills (Ursan) and consumable cheat codes was even worse.

Weird example of how broken GW gameplay is: I popped into the game last week to do Hell's Precipice for the end-game weapon. Hadn't played in months. Went in with eight humans, lost two by the time we got to the bonus, had only one healer left. I popped several consumables, and we walked through the rest of the level like it was child's play -- no deaths, no challenge.

How could seven heroes *POSSIBLY* make the game too easy in a world of Ursan and consumables? Dear God, GW PvE is no challenge at all these days.

Area difficulty should have scaled by group size, so that peopel could go with whatever size group they want. And it may just be that GW2 will do that.

If ANet truly learns from the mistakes made in GW1, I'll be buying GW2.

zwei2stein · May 05, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

And considering that we can have 6 heroes now by backdooring the system, 7 shouldn't be a serious problem. It's not like we need control windows for all of them or something.

They also developed system for 7 heroes as they playtested NF. Its out there.

Hugh Manatee · May 05, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Like I said before, and it bears stating again, there are 5 zones where Henchmen cannot go, The Fissure of Woe, The Underworld, The Deep, Urgoz Warden, and The Domain of Anguish. Furthermore, the Deep and Urgoz need highly specialized builds. If Henchmen aren't allowed down there, then let me take in a hero based party, or put in 'ascended' or specialized henchmen so I can get down there with AI. The deal was I'd be able to H&H everything without having to mess with the average dingbat, It's BS that I can't H&H the elite missions. Even if they implemented the 7 heroes(11 for urgoz/deep) just for those zones, and you couldn't leave those zones with them(only enter the elite missions) that'd be just fine. I do believe I can H&H every other aspect of the game(vanquished all but 3 elonian zones 1+3+4 well on my way with canthan and prophecies zones and done many H&H guardian missions), I HAVE 2+6'd the FoW and parts of the UW. It is possible to 4 man the FoW with just heroes. There's no good reason they won't let us take 7 heroes down there, not one. Not one technical, not one balance-wise, not even a 'social' one.

Whatever GW2's mechanics are it will be a totally different game, GW1 is based around the concept of a 4, 6 or 8 man party, and plays like a 8 man RTS, and has almost always had the option to take AIs instead of humans(an option I exercised early and often). The advent of customizable AIs wasn't a bad design decision, it was brilliant. It was a decision that saved the average social pug player and soloist alike. It re-invigorated PvE and added a new layer of strategic play. Adding 20+ heroes, and only allowing 3 at a time per player was the dumb thing to do.

The 'it takes to many resources to implement' thing is bull too, all they have to do is add a second/third row of buttons beneath the radar, make the hero panels scalable, and fiddle with the party drop down box so you can add them in. In terms of the programming it took to get GW up and running in the first place, that should be child's play for even a low level code monkey to pull off.

MasterSasori · May 05, 2008, 06:16 AM // 06:16

The biggest problem with adding these heros would that they would focus on more individual play. Is that a bad thing? Yes, this is GW where you are meant to play as a team. There are better games out there solo.

The biggest competitor for 7 heros is simply Ursan. As much as I dislike Ursan, one good thing about it is that it can bring people together. Adding in the 7 heros will likely destroy what's left of pug team play in PvE there is.

Hugh Manatee · May 05, 2008, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

The biggest problem with adding these heros would that they would focus on more individual play. Is that a bad thing? Yes, this is GW where you are meant to play as a team. There are better games out there solo.

The biggest competitor for 7 heros is simply Ursan. As much as I dislike Ursan, one good thing about it is that it can bring people together. Adding in the 7 heros will likely destroy what's left of pug team play in PvE there is.

Bull. I can(and do) already H&H about 90% of the game, a TEAM of myself and up to 7 AIs. Like I said, those 5 areas are the only place where you currentlyNEED humans(sort of) . Anyone who gave up on the average pug has already done so(I fill a party with guildies, allies or friend lists or heroes or not at all), anyone who still pugs will still do so until they get fed up too. All 7-11 hero parties does is give dedicated soloist a shot at areas where we don't normally go.

MasterSasori · May 05, 2008, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

Bull. I can(and do) already H&H about 90% of the game, a TEAM of myself and up to 7 AIs. Like I said, those 5 areas are the only place where you currentlyNEED humans(sort of) . Anyone who gave up on the average pug has already done so(I fill a party with guildies, allies or friend lists or heroes or not at all), anyone who still pugs will still do so until they get fed up too. All 7-11 hero parties does is give dedicated soloist a shot at areas where we don't normally go.

Having those 7 heros STILL gives you the option of replacing pug in those areas so it STILL discourages pug - it doesn't detract from my argument.

If you advocate going solo, this isn't the game for you anyway.

Sleeper Service · May 05, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Having those 7 heros STILL gives you the option of replacing pug in those areas so it STILL discourages pug - it doesn't detract from my argument.

If you advocate going solo, this isn't the game for you anyway.

err how many pugs do you see going to the deep these days, and where there ARE pugs how many permit you going as your own class and your own build rather than bear.

you're right its about OPTIONS, you want to pug? fine. go ahead. what does having 7 heroes change to that, after all you have your fantastic guild and incredible social skills to compensate the hordes of antisocial soloers that will suddenly pop up in the game.

kokuou · May 05, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

err how many pugs do you see going to the deep these days.

I see pugs (non-Ursan, at that) going into The Deep all the time between the hours of 9am and about 2pm PST in the International districts.

pumpkin pie · May 05, 2008, 08:10 AM // 08:10

I am all for having the option to have 7 heros.

thou I don't pug that often, there are times that I have to delay doing a mission because I can't get a group to do with me. especially mission where you need 2 or 3 pairs of hands.

for people who thinks MMORPG automatically means you have to play with other players, I like to differ. Its a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, you can be a friendly character, you can be a loner, you can be ... get my drift. MMORPG not one word in that describe that a player have to play with another player. Players are log onto a massive multiplayer server and pretend to be that character they are playing, that is all.

for instant, yesterday I wanted to do Nundu Bays mission for the master rewards, which I did with H/H. but the story is, I saw someone looking for group to do the mission, a ranked 8 LB ... they advertise for quiet some time without any answers, so I ask if anyone needed someone to do master for the mission with, so this person asnwers what's your profession, i Answers ele, and no reply... lol I thought I help, see, and this pug ignore me, like ele is somekind of contagious disease.

now why I tell you that story, well its to show you that time like that you really, really need Heros/Henches for the player who evidently cannot complete the mission with master rewards and for me who got rejected rofl for being an ele, in truth players pick and choose and waste your time, and prejudice against the profession you are playing and skill bars that does not satisfy other players.

HuntMaster Avatar · May 05, 2008, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Having 7 heroes would change nothing, People still solo with H/H so that is a pointless discussion. Balance will not be changed what so ever since a 7 hero party would be no stronger than an 8man player party, Hero's do not have better skills nor do they have a smarter AI than a human mind.

People who like to socialize and play with people will continue to do so, Players who only play with h/h will continue to play solo with computer allies.

A lot of players simply do not join guilds or find people they like to party with for many reasons. Many do not like to wait or have time to wait for an acceptable party with all the skills people demand. Or they like to run their own builds and not let people dictate how they play the game.

7 heroes would not require much work from anet, the most work would be the addition of 4 more flags on the mini map, Not a huge task.
Adding 5 more heroes would not take anything away from the progress of gw2 nor should it be a problem for people who do not use heroes because they are not losing anything. social people wont change, players who like to solo wont change.

Drops will remain the same. There is no valid reason 7 heroes + access with heroes to elite areas can not be done. It is simply a way to force co-op play with a community of very rude people who care nothing for the other player.
7 heroes would be a great solution for those of us who like to enjoy the game without the drama of other people, and who are sick of the massive failings and struggles of henchmen.

And to the players who state that GW is not a single player game, or there are other, better single player games are wasting their time because those of us who solo find GW to be a very fun single player game with multiplayer options. So stop telling us what we like and trying to force us to put up with your in-game abuse.

7 heroes will not affect pvp in anyway, which is the truely social side of gw. Plus we could try new build combos and get even more enjoyment!It would also make hero battles much more intense.

strcpy · May 05, 2008, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

If you advocate going solo, this isn't the game for you anyway.

What game would you then suggest? As far as I can see this is the only game in it's class.

Traditional MMO's have tons of options and has the one near perfect game (WoW). Offline single player games have many options and have a few really really good ones (Oblivion). I agree that if you want a single player offline game go elsewhere just as if you want a MMO you should go elsewhere, however GW has never been one of them.

The only other game I see that remotely is similar is Diablo II. However it's old enough that you surely aren't telling me to go play that (I might as well tell you that the original EQ is good enough if you want an MMO)? Nor does it fill the same niche that GW fills (though it did fill a similar one at one time).

The boxes I have say I can play the game solo or in a group if I so choose so I'm not sure why I should go elsewhere if I want to play solo - it seems to me as if *you* came here expecting something that wasn't advertised. It's not like AI companions are something new in GW and the original players were screwed.

It's quite laughable that at this point in the game you tell solo players go elsewhere as they have been one of the largest groups since the game was released, in fact they were *the* largest groups shortly after release. The game has been a mostly solo game since about 6 months into release (about when people stopped forming PUGS for anything outside of the harder missions). Within the first year PUGS had died and it was mostly guilds, friends list, and hench.

It is way too late to tell people who want to solo the game that it isn't for them, given the amount of us who have happily done so for years (along with the general complaints in this thread about how you can only solo stuff and not get groups) you mostly look like an idiot claiming that. If you and others had pushed it 2.5-3 years ago maybe you would have gotten your way, now it's too late.

Tamuril elansar · May 05, 2008, 10:58 AM // 10:58

if i want to play with other people i go to pvp (wich i do alot more than pve anyway). pve has always been a place for me to steamroll creatures and with 7 hero's that'll go better than just 3 and some henchies.

EPO Bot · May 05, 2008, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Perhaps you guys who want to solo everything just need a single player RPG? There are many of them out there, and most have better stories then GW.